EXACTLY. With Florence Given. Episode 2: SEX: Megan Barton-Hanson - Bi-sexuality and Slut Shaming Floss: [00:00:00] Hello. Thank you so much for listening to Exactly. with me Florence given I've been absolutely overwhelmed with all your feedback from the first episode. Honestly, it means so much to me. I've wanted to do a podcast for so long and to know that you wanted one as well was just, it was just the cherry on top. And I'm so excited for you to listen to the rest of this podcast, it's been such a joy to make and I have some incredible guests lined up throughout this podcast. I'm going to be deep diving into subjects that fascinate me. I'll be speaking to a wide range of voices, tackling big subjects from multiple angles. So really wants to get into some of the complexity and nuance that these subjects hold. In order to do this, I'll be breaking up the podcast into four parts mini series on a particular theme. And in this mini series, we're talking all about sex. And today I'm talking to Megan Barton Hanson about queerness, Bi-phobia and slut shaming. At the end of the episode, I'll be [00:01:00] answering the questions you've sent in via my Instagram stories on this topic. Then in the fourth episode, we're opening up this conversation around sex, and I want to hear from you. My guest, and I will be answering your calls, your texts and your voice notes around sex. Any questions all day long as you have to do with sex, sexuality, queer identity, or anything else. If you have something you want to discuss or need advice, just drop me a line on WhatsApp at +447890 302 665. So as this first mini series is all about sex and sexuality. Something I wanted to talk about straight away was queer identity. And in particular bisexuality, as a bisexual woman, myself, I know there's so much stigma and misinformation and. Standing out there, but I hope in this episode, I'll be able to set the record straight on with my incredible, hilarious, honest and unapologetic guest, Megan Barton Hanson. I fucking love Megan. As one of the few bisexual women in the public eye, well, the few out [00:02:00] bisexual women in the public eye, she's such an inspiration to a lot of people to go out and live their best queer lives and to explore and celebrate their sexuality. I didn't give a fuck if you don't agree with Megan, what she says or does. I think she's a legend and she’s someone- if only for the fact that she's withstood several blows from the press and people in the media that I think- is someone to look up to for women. Megan and I have been internet friends for a few years, she supported me and I support her right from the get go of both of our careers, as we kind of launched into the public eye. She was due to appear on Good Morning Britain after leaving the house on Love Island. And she messaged me and asked if I had a statement t-shirt for her to wear in front of fucking Piers Morgan. And at the time I was just this uni student selling t-shirts on Instagram, in my tiny shoe box of a bloody room. Instantly, I wrapped it up in the pink wrapping paper, sent it to her house and I think it must've been two [00:03:00] days later, she wore my t-shirt on Good Morning Britain with the words, stop valuing women based on their sexual history, just printed in my big red font right across her tits on good morning Britain. It was so iconic and it was honestly a proper proud moment for me. When I got to see my t-shirt on the television. And today, I just want to talk with Megan all about her journey on her sexuality. Like I said, the series is about sex and on that subject is gay sex, sexual orientational, being slut-shamed. Megan has literally experienced it all, and I'm just so excited to chat to her today. I want to find out more about her life. I want to find out more about the journey and the difficulties that you face along the way. So I'm so excited to talk to her today. I love her energy. And most of all her refusal to pander to the haters. I don't care what you say. She's a fucking iPhone. So Megan, I'm so excited to speak to you today. Floss: Thank you so much for coming in. Megan: Thank you for having me. I always love chatting to you. Floss: [00:04:00] Of course. I mean, we could talk for hours. We've already established this. First of all, before we get into all of that, I'm going to ask you my five high five questions. They are quick fire questions that I ask all of my guests. And you just say the first thing that comes to mind. Megan: Okay. Floss: Try not to think too much about it. Megan: Oh, okay. [indistinct] Floss: What's one thing. That's sexual soul on fire. Megan: Um, Music Floss: amazing - any particular music? Megan: It depends on my mood. I don't have like one set like genre where- I just need, sometimes you just need to dance. So even music or dancing, and I'm a frustrated dancer. I have no coordination, but sometimes you just have to feel the music and just do what your body wants to do. Floss: Okay. Amazing. A question number two, if you could, wear one outfit for the rest of your life, a look that would define you forever, what would that be? Megan: So I always joke. I have a uniform it's always DMs, tights, or fishnet tires, maybe like a tartan skirt, or a skirt and a cute little booby top. Floss: That's a very bisexual outfit.[laughs] Megan: such a stereotype! Okay. Uh, [00:05:00] what's something that people frequently misunderstand or get wrong about you. Megan: Um, that I'm quite cold. Everyone that meets me thinks because how they've seen me on certain shows that like, you're just a man eater, you go for what you want. You don't, you're not a girl's girl, but I'm actually very sensitive. I'm a Pisces. I'm such a princess. Um, um, I would say I'm very kind and people just see me as this cold money driven. Sexual woman, you know… Floss: Almost all the women I've interviewed for this show have said that, um, people say back to them when they meet them. “Oh my God I can't believe you’re so fucking nice!” they couldn't believe it. And I think it's like this exterior, exterior we have where people think that if you are confident that you must hate other women or that you think you're better than them or something. Megan: So true just for being strong, it's like strong. Why is that seen as like a negative? Okay. Floss: Another question. Finish the sentence. I'm still a work in progress when it comes to. Megan: Um, I’m still a work in progress, when it comes to relationships [laughs] [00:06:00] it's not great. Floss: Okay. Okay. Question number five. When was the last time you majorly cringed? Megan: I cringe all the time, but mainly on Instagram stories the next day, when I think I'm like Beyonce and I'm trying to twerk, I'm just thinking I'm so sexy. And I'm like, what was you doing? Floss: I’ll get that like six months later, like, I'll go through my archive. And I'm like, how did I think this was a thirst trap? Like, how did it, like, how did I think that was sexy at the time- Megan: moment you think, oh my God, people are going to go mad for this. Oh my God. Why am I so fit? Floss: They’re gonna eat it up! [interlude] Okay, amazing. Now I want to get right into the questions I want to ask you. Um, so we first saw you on love island in 2018. And I feel like this is just such an obvious thing to say, but love island portrays a very heteronormative view of dating and relationships. And I was wondering how you navigated that and found that as a bisexual person. Megan: Yeah, it was hard. And I felt like when I went in. [00:07:00] I already had things that the press and people outside would pick up on and not necessarily get, or have a very judgemental view on. So for example, working in the sex industry, I done webcam before I knew that would get brought up and be seen in a very negative, derogatory way. Um, the fact that. Sleeping with two guys, well I slept with two guys in a period of eight weeks and I knew, I'm quite stubborn, so I knew I'd get backlash for that. But I thought this is my process. I want to grab it with both hands and embrace it. So, because I portrayed myself in that way or the narrative that I thought they was going to portray that I worked in the sex industry. I'm not a girl's girl. I'm going to go for what I want. I was kind of like reserved. I didn't want to openly say like, yeah, I'm bisexual. And if you send a girl and like X, Y, and Z, like my type of a girI would build over that. Like, I want to explore that whilst I'm in here, because I just felt like I already had a lot of battles to fight when I came out because of how I portrayed myself in there or [00:08:00] because how I carried myself in there. So I didn't really speak about it. And if I did, I was, there was times when you don't forget the camera's there, but you would just have a deep conversation with someone. And if they add that or not, you're unsure. I definitely told the producers before I went in. So was dating girls before, only a couple of times. But yeah, I find it so hard to date girls. Floss: Yeah. Megan: Before I didn't really know where I was looking and I come from an area where there wasn't really a big gay scene, so I was like clueless, but yeah, I mean, if there was a girl that came in that I fancied, I feel like, I definitely would have rried, but I'm definitely more confident with men. Like any men I could put it on. And I'm really confident in that. Floss: It's so easy. Right? Megan: I feel like, yeah. I just have to be really flirty, laugh at their shit jokes. And I feel like I'm in control of that dynamic, flirting with a man. With a woman I am a bit more shy. Floss: Oh my God. I didn't even realize how much of a courting process that dating women was with men. It's so it's so textbook. It's almost like [00:09:00] women get attention from men when we don't even fucking want it, like on the street. So then when you date a girl, it's like, you have to go through that whole process of like courting her and impressing her and take her out on dates and all this kind of stuff. And it's, it's a completely different shift from dating men. Megan: Yeah. I love it though. I feel like it's so much more rewarding with men. It's so easy, like not to sound big headed, but you know, like obviously with some men it's not, and it's more of a chase in some guys are more mysterious and Floss: they thrive off that. Yeah. Being like the edgy, like mysterious musician or something… [laughs] Megan: But for a lot of men, I feel like, yeah, it's quite straightforward. They're just open. You're both there. Basically we have men it's just like taking candy from a baby, but you know what you both want is like, okay, you fancy me. We're going to bang great. With a girl it's just so much more exciting and interesting. And I have a lot more respect for women. I don't think I should say that. But i definitely do. [00:10:00] Floss: I feel like, and again, this isn't for every woman, but what I've noticed as a pattern that women will dangle sex in front of. To get what they want. And men will dangle romance in front of women to get what they want. So it's like, like they dangle the carrot in front of your face. Like if women will play up their assets and women will play up their flirtatiousness and almost become this like siren to get the man to fall in love with them. And then the other stereotype is that men will dangle romance and love bomb women and promise all of this stuff to get the fuck, to get the women, to trust him. Megan: That is so true. I never thought about it. Floss: Yeah like I thought about it the other day, we dangle these different things in front of each other. Um, and I feel like that's, that's the thing with, with dating men. It is almost this script of like, you know, how it goes, you know what he wants, you know? And again, not all the fucking time, there are some lovely guys out there who aren't going to manipulate women, but you kind of know the script and with queer dating, it's, there's no script. You make up your own fucking rules. Who's going to be the more dominant person who's going to be. The more submissive who's all of [00:11:00] this kind of stuff who's going to, and it doesn't matter when you're on a date with a woman, it's not like, fuck, she needs to open the door for me. Or she's not a gentleman. It's like, someone's got open the fucking door because gender roles, right. Like that's what I found was. Uh, freeing and also quite challenging about dating girls is that there are no rules. There's no script. Megan: Yeah. I love that though. And I just think with men, I feel like when I date a man, I'm waiting for them to fuck up or say something inappropriate or mention my sex work, or ask me about sleeping with women. And I'm like, just waiting for that. But with girls it's just so much more free and like exciting. Floss: Yeah. You're not waiting for the penny to drop. Like you're not, you're not waiting for that moment where… the bubble is burst. [interlude] So, did you notice a difference between how the men and women were treated through the press after you left love island? Megan: A thousand percent, especially with me more so, because I felt like that was what the sixth series I think covers on maybe and go. [00:12:00] I think on my show, were very wary of like how the press is going to perceive them. If they S it was a big thing about do not sleep with anyone do as a woman, you can't sleep with anyone. Floss: Wow. What was, that said to you on the show? Is that what the girls talked about? Megan: It was just like amongst us girls, the producers, obviously. Like all for it, if you wanted to do that, do that. And there was girls in there on my Sirius that were sleeping with a person was coupled up with. But as long as you don't acknowledge it ever say it out loud, like you can take your microphone off and say it to another girl, like, oh my God, guess what we done? If you said it on air, then that's out there. So, so many girls were doing that. And I just found that really, really sad. Um, but yeah, I just owned it because I am, although I'm quite introverted in a way I'm very stubborn and I'm like, no, there is nothing wrong with it, I truly believe that with my whole heart. So I was like, of course, yes. That with one guy who was beautiful after the sex, it didn't really work. There was no chat. So I'm going to move on and make the most of my journey. I got absolutely ripped apart for that. Every interview. Are you embarrassed? Are you ashamed? Do you [00:13:00] regret that? How'd your parents feel or your parents embarrassed? There were headlines that my dad fled the country. He was that embarrassed. I was like- Floss: Wow. Megan: Oh my God. I was in that eight weeks and slept with two people. Like really? I think that's tame. Floss: Absolutely. I think people are a lot less honest about how they actually would operate in real life… on on tele. I think people have this whole, you know, people bringing up your parents, they bring up all of the shame that you didn't even have, Megan, you didn't even have the shame, but then people were projecting their own fears onto you. They were thinking about, fuck, if I was on that show, I would be so embarrassed. Megan, you're not embarrassed. And then all of a sudden you're made to feel all of the shame and what I loved about how you handled everything. You, you didn't shame away. You didn't apologize. You didn't say, yeah, I should have been [vocalises] you just, you stood your fucking ground. And I think it was, it was so important to see. Megan: Yeah. I mean, it was, I couldn't be any other way. Like I couldn't come out and apologize because I wasn't sorry and yeah. I mean, it was just hard because Wes, like the guy I was with the show, it, he [00:14:00] would sit next to me in interviews and listen and never once pipe up and be like well I slept with two people on that show. Just one of them didn't come to light. Um, I just think, oh, it's just so backward still in this day and age that men can do whatever they want and are pattedon the back for it. But as a woman, it's just so like, shameful. Like it's just bizarre to me that still people can't get their heads around that women enjoy sex. Like what? Floss: the thing that really fucks me up, I wrote about this in my book. People can't get their heads around women liking sex. So it's like, so you are knowingly having sex with women and you don't want them to be enjoying it. Like that is so weird to me. It takes two people to fuck. And so why don't you want the other person to enjoy it? That's… just.. it's like making women's bodies and tonight wine wanking tissues, if you don't want the women to enjoy the sex and why you fucking them? That's so messed up! Megan: It's so true. Or they're delusional that it's like, you're only allowed to enjoy sex with them. Like, I don't know about you, but in my past, like, I've had so many guys, but it's just the best sex you've ever had. Floss: Wow. [00:15:00] Megan: It's like, no, I have great sex with everyone. Cause I make it good sex is like, it's not just you. Floss: So this is something I'm really, really curious about. I feel like every queer person has a different definition of gay sex. How do you define gay sex? Because in heteronormative sex fingering eating pussy is technically considered like foreplay, but to me that's fucking, that's gay sex. So when, what is gay sex to you? How would you define it? Because I feel like it's so different with gay sex. Megan: I agree. Like, I feel like gay sex is foreplay, but it's just the way that it's, the energy is different with a woman it's. So I feel the most connected to women when I'm having sex. With men, if I got fingered by man, it’s like that was great. There's like zero effort in that. You're just literally rushing the process to try and get your dick wet. Like that was awful. Floss: Isn't it? It's with a woman it's, it's fucking- Megan: it's like the connection, that [00:16:00] energy, how close, like it's just different with women. And I've never had that with a guy as much as I try and like drop hints and be like, oh, the best bits about like sex with a girl is that the foreplay lasted forever and this and that still dumb as fuck! Clueless! [laughs] Floss: I feel like in heterosexual sex. It is all about the penetration. Of the penis and like, that's the thing there that I found really interesting because anything outside of penis penetration, it just isn't considered sex, but when you're queer that sex. Megan: Yeah. So weird that people have that idea. I just feel like if you both orgasm, no matter how you get there and you're like connected and you're having a vibe sex to me. Floss: Sure. Yes. I would also consider sex without an orgasm. So if I was like doing stuff with someone with. Um, I didn't come, but maybe she came or whatever. I was still considered sex because also gay sex lasts forever. So it just [00:17:00] like, it's so different compared to straight sex. Megan: Yeah and I feel like a lot of straight sex, it's like a rush to get to the end, especially with guys. Floss: That's what I mean? Megan: And it's so boring. Yeah. Like ok, ready for round two? Floss: yeah. I just, I find it really interesting because I feel like every queer person has a different definition of sex. Also gay sex has so much more intention behind it. There's so much more focus on literally being of service to each other. And, oh my God, what can I do for you? And it's this it's so much more communicative.Um, Megan: Yeah, a hundred percent like, but it is just a different energy. And I feel like, yeah, with guys it's quite selfish, but with girls, it's more about doing stuff for the other person. That's what turns me on more. Whereas with guys I'm more selfish probably as well, because of that energy, they come to the party with, well I'm going to be selfish too. Floss: Absolutely. [00:18:00] Can you remember your first date or sexual encounter? I Megan: was thinking about this on the way here. And I remembered something that I've never told anyone.. [laughs]... I was at school and I must've been like really young. And then my best friend at the time, she was like, she had older sisters and she was like, right, we're going to do this thing today. We're called lesbians. So basically. Everywhere we go, we have to hold hands. When we sit down, the teacher like reads we're going to hold hands on the carpet. And then we used to sneak off and like show each other our nunn. Floss: Well, you called it as well. And it shows us your nunn. Megan: and just stand there in the cubicle, looking at each other. And then I think at one time we tried to like, touch it as well [laughs]. Floss: Sorry. No, and I spoke about this on Instagram before and just like release this whole like valve of shame. It was a couple of years ago. Um, spoke on my stories about how at sleepovers girls would pretend to be like, well, let's practice for boyfriends. And then you would pretend that you’re kissing and doing all of this [00:19:00] stuff for when you have a boyfriend. And actually, I feel like it's just really gay, but also a lot of straight women did it as well. Yeah. Yeah. And had those early experiences of like exploring pleasure with someone just because it's, it was playful and it didn't have to mean anything. And then I feel like as you get older, that's where the shame creeps. And sex becomes less about playfulness and all about performance and like, yeah. How do I look when I fuck? How do, how does he like it if you're dating men, um, very similar experience to you acting out scenes from movies like, oh yeah. Let's, let's play this scene between these two girls. Okay. And then you would like make this whole story up around it, but yeah, that is such a honestly more common than, you know, that experience. Megan: for straight girls as well. I thought, yeah, that's always been the secret Lesbian in me. Floss: what I feel. So I did this highlight on my Instagram stories. I think it's just called, um, pleasure on my Instagram. Um, you should check it out. It's just full of stories that, um, someone sent in this thing to me once saying, oh my [00:20:00] God, I used to do this thing when I was young. Did anyone else do this? Put it on my story with a little Q and a box. And I got hundreds of people telling me the most hilarious stories. Someone was like, yeah. I used to act out scenes from Corrie with my… [laughs] like me and my friend used to, oh, what were the characters? I can't remember any, but like girls would pretend to be like shirly and phil or whatever just so british and so hilarious. Megan: I love that. Yeah. So that was, yeah, like my first, first ever weird thing, but what was funny, I saw her recently and my area actually lesbian now, and I'm lesbian. I'm not, oh my God! We were destined to be gay, lesbian friends together. Um, but then after that I went on a photo shoot. And it's one of like the first photo shoots that ever done with this like glamour magazine. And there was a girl video in it. And then she was like, oh, we should shoot together later. And again, in my head, I was like, we're just doing it for the pictures. And then before I know it we're like sleeping together. I don't know. So that was my first proper experience. I went on- Floss: like [00:21:00] grownup experience. Yeah. Megan: Yeah. And I went on dates before with girls, but I just felt it was hard because I knew I was always attracted to women. So much more so than men, I found women so much more interesting and beautiful, and I could appreciate all different kinds of women, whereas with men and they could be stunning looking, but unless they had like a certain quirkiness or personality, yeah. Floss: substance. Megan: I couldn't find them attractive. It could be literally like Tom Hardy, physically, but then he could like put me off so easy. But whereas with women, I could see the beauty and like so many women. So I'd gone a few days. It really confused me because I didn't have that instant connection. And I think that's a mistake that a lot of people make when they're just like dipping their toe into like dating the same sex, they think, okay, I've established and you've admitted it to yourself that you do like girls.And then when you date, and it's not like this perfect fairytale date and you will have bad dates with people of the same sex. I started to question it. I was like, oh my God, am I even Bi what? Like what's going on? Floss: [00:22:00] Oh my god people are going to relate to that so much, like the whole experience of being bi is just like, confusion, like the whole thing, constantly Megan: so much confusion. So yeah, I dated a few girls, but never done anything really sexual other than just like kiss and that. And then that girl in the photo shoot, I was like, okay, no, I definitely am. I'm queer. And I love it. Floss: So it was that after love island? Megan: Uh, no, that was before. Yeah. Floss: So you've publicly dated men and women. Um, have you felt like anyone has challenged your bisexuality because I've, I've experienced a lot of that with people just either not believing you or saying you're doing it for attention. Have you experienced that? Megan: Yeah, massively and it's so infuriating, I think because I had a really public breakup and it was messy and I was chaotic and I just went for it on social media, acting like an absolute chaotic mess. People assume. 'cause I got treated badly by men, or it was such a terrible breakup [00:23:00] that I have now resorted to women. And that was such an insult. And I literally want to shake people and be like, are you okay? I've always found women attractive. I've had sex with women before, but I just felt like I was in such a situation of having so much shame slut-shaming around my career choices, shame around surgery that I've had, that I didn't want to add to that. And like fuel the fire more with more opinions. Um, but I got asked to do enough, a dating show, and I was like, no, definitely don't want to do it. But then I thought I come from an area where there isn't a big gay scene. And the only means to find any kind of girls to date was an app called Her, which was really- Floss: And I feel we have an added thing of having the public profile. So it's like when you go onto these apps, there's people who know you on that. And that's, that's a bit strange. Megan: Yeah. It's awkward. And then people are like, is this actually, you're not, I've been blocked off. I think it's hinge or one of them I've been blocked because people think it's a catfish. It’s me! I'm single and I'm lonely.[00:24:00] Floss: People messaged me. Floss. Someone's like faking to be you on hinge. And I sound like a screenshot of my hinge profile. Megan: Like Yeah. That's me. Floss: Do you reply? Or do you just ignore it? And then they're like, yeah. And then I came off it cause I was like, okay, everyone thinks it's fake. Probably just shouldn't be on it, Megan: Yeah it is so hard dating in the public eye, but yeah, they offered me that dating show. And I thought you know what? I'm really struggling by myself cause the app just wasn't cutting it. Um, there's about five lesbians in my area. One of which was my old best friend. Floss: It's like been there done that Megan: So I just thought, oh, well, at least the producers can like, can pick me some girls. I told them my type, what I thought was my type, which turned out to be completely different. So yeah, that was fun. And then I had everyone's opinions. Like you're just doing it for press or all of that. It's like, Um ok whatever. But then, I say whatever, but it did get to me because then I dated a girl straight after that show and didn't want to label it, like was [00:25:00] having fun, but I feel like we got papped together a couple of times. And before I knew it, they labeled her as my girlfriend. And then I felt like I had to prove to everyone that I was gay and she is my girlfriend. So that relationship went on far too long. It was so toxic, so unhealthy, but I think I allowed it to run. Firstly because it was a new dynamic. I'd never had a relationship with a girl. Um, so I allowed things I wouldn't from a man- Floss: Oh yep, been there! Massively! Megan: It’s hard isnt it? Floss: And also because you're you're so you've been, so this is how I felt anyway, I'll speak for myself. I felt so starved of queer intimacy and queer romance because it had only ever been with men, that I was so much more blind to red flags. I was willingly ignoring them because I wanted to have this thing that I've I've, I've wanted and also been so ashamed of my whole life. So now that I was out and proud, it was. I can't see the red flags. So it was just like, pretending I can't see them- Megan: Blinkered to it and just enjoying the good parts, but that's so unhealthy. Floss:Sure. Yeah, absolutely. It starts stuff that I would [00:26:00] never want to tolerate. Um, with a man I have tolerated with women because of that exact reason, because. Yeah. It feels like when you come out, it's been something that you've been wanting for so long. So yeah. I, I mean, I didn't know that that's how you felt in that relationship, but that's, I totally understand it. And also the pressure to prove that you're Bi you're like, okay. Yeah, she's my girlfriend then. Megan: Yeah. And then just stayed with her for way longer than it should have been, because I was like, no, I am. And even then people still questioning and still questioning. So, yeah, I just dragged that out. As long as I could, for all the wrong reasons. Floss: It's exhausting having to constantly be on the defense, which is why I decided to just like take myself off it. So there was a period where I was like, oh my God, how am I even ever going to be attracted to like, visibly, verbally say that I'm attracted to a man again, because people are going to call my entire bisexuality into question. If I even say that I find a man attractive, and that's the other [00:27:00] thing with like having a platform. Is that you’re kind of stripped of the privilege of evolving and like changing your mind about things because people hold you to this version, or like you said, you’re this, so why are you out here doing this? And it's like, that was one time where I was captured unaware. And now I'm being held to this standard of who I was three years ago. And it's like, yeah, it's, it's hard to put like such a- a colorful existence onto the internet because. There's no nuance, which is why I want to do this podcast, because I feel like conversations between people are so much more important than saying you're this, you're this, you're that. Does that make sense? Megan: Yeah, no, a hundred percent. It's like, you'll say something at a time when you truly felt that, but you're allowed to adapt and change- whether that's in a few days or a week or a month or a year. And I do feel like you're completely right with that. People do see a version of you in their head. That's like solidified- that’s you and you can't move from that. I felt negative. Floss: Yeah. I felt it we’re [00:28:00] far too complex for social media is what I was trying to say with far too complex. You cannot, you cannot possibly be understood just through looking at your Instagram. Megan: Yeah so hard to even with stories and Instagram lives. I think it's so hard to put your personality out there. And I think that is the importance of podcasts. You can just be so free and open. [interlude] Floss: Do you feel that you're challenged more on your sexuality by straight people or by queer people? Megan: Both. I would say, and I didn't expect it. Before I came out publicly I was very, just like isolated in my area. And I only see like a few girls from that day and up, like, I wasn't really around a lot of gay women. So I didn't really experience that. So it was just straight people saying, oh no, you don't seem like the generic lesbian or, oh, it's just, don't you think it's because your sex work past every stripper hates men. And I was just like, that's so cliche and not true. Or the whole [00:29:00] relationship thing. That's what a lot of straight people say. Erm. Gay people. I thought like gay girls think it's just like an experiment and won't really take me seriously. They're like, oh, it's just a phase for you probably. Like just you'll find them an attractive, you'll end up with a man though. And I'm just like, that's so dismissive. And I think a lot of bisexual people have that. We just feel like a erased and the straight people will put us in a box and gay people will put us in a box and it's like, Ugh, we just don't feel valid. I feel sometimes what Floss: I don't. Yeah, no, I totally agree. And it often feels like you don't have. Community. Well, I've, I feel like I have two communities. I literally feel like I have, cause I can, I can go to a pub, um, and hang out with straight people. And then I have my queer friends where I'll go to the gay bar and then we'll be gay. I, this is how I know I'm so gay is that I don't understand how women can't be attracted to other women. I'm like, how do you look at a woman and you just don't think she's fucking incredible understand the straight mindset. Yeah. Megan: It's, [00:30:00] it's really, I have a lot of straight girlfriends that do appreciate women's beauty. They’re just like “I can't imagine myself with a girl” and that's what's annoying as well when people, I feel like when I say erase bi people, a lot of straight people say you have all girls agenda, like gender fluid, and all girls are like sexually fluid. Like, oh, every girl has like slept with another girl and kissed another girl. I'm like, yeah, but that's just like a sexual thing. I dunno. Sometimes I just feel like I'm constantly having to fight my case and explain why I like women and that I would have relationships with women and I have done, I don’t know. Floss: It is different. You liking and dating a woman is different to a straight girl who wants to get with you on a night out. Like different things. I don't know if you found this, but I, because I'm typically very feminine. Uh, I've had like a lot of girls almost use me, have used me in the past when I first came out as this like experiment because I'm fem and it's still attractive for men to look at. So [00:31:00] I found that I'll go to a bar. Get with this girl and then her friends, like she's got a fucking boyfriend and she's like, I'm being used to piss off her boyfriend or to turn on her boyfriend because I'm fem, but she would never get with a Butch girl. Right. Because that's too gay. Like it's like it's too gay. Megan: I've never, I've never had that, but I can understand people doing that, like when I've had hinge or whatever, and I say it to girls and you see couples on, they're like, oh, we're looking for another girl. That's not what I'm here for! Floss: this goddess. And then it's like her boyfriend in the background. Megan: Oh God. Yeah. A lot of butch girls and gay girls don't take me seriously. I feel like I struggled with that a lot. And that is more my type of foot. When I first started dating women I would like a super glamorous girl. Floss: And like yourself, you almost thought, yeah. Megan: Like someone with like hair extensions and nice big bibs and a big bum and like, oh my God, it would be so fun to get [00:32:00] ready together and… [indistinct] share clothes. [laughs] But no, I think in reality, my type is more tomboy. Um, but I just feel like girls, especially girls who've only ever been with other girls. They just see me as like, they don't take me seriously, which is kind of annoying, but I want to ask your advice on, um, how you have the confidence to go up and talk to girls. Cause like I said, I'm so confident with men and whether that's because like my past in the strip club, I've spoken to a whole array of different characters like men. Um, but with women, I just don't have that confidence. And I do have fear of rejection, I guess, with girls. Like how did you. How did you do that? Have you always been confident? Are you like that with men as well? Floss: No. So I'm the complete opposite with men. I don't like pursuing men, like the idea of pursuing men. I just, I don't like it. Part of me, it's an ego thing. It's just like, you don't deserve me to chase you. Like you don't deserve me like like me? Flirt- no. It's an ego thing. Also I haven’t dated men for so… I mean years. So I mean, years I haven't dated men for years, so I've actually not flooded with [00:33:00] men a lot, but when it comes to girls, Oh, being queer in a straight bar is so much fun because I can always spot other queer people. So I was with my friend last year in a bar and I saw this girl. Looked at her, she looked at me- Instantly I knew it was gay. But then where my head goes to it, she looking at me because she fancies me or does she follow me on Instagram? And she's like, oh, that's Florence Given which happens a lot. And then I'll go flirt with the girl and she's like, yeah, I read your book. And I'm like, fuck I, um, anyway, so this girl, she was super fucking cute. It was like this instant, like we just looked at each other up and down and I was like, you're so beautiful. And she was like, yeah, you too. And instantly it was no, one's going to be able to see what I'm doing because on the, um, listened to it on the podcast. But basically I'm just like looking back and up and down and it was this instant knowing. And then I just said, can I take you out? I don't want to get with her then I didn't want it to be this like, oh, let's kiss in the middle of this bar, for all these fucking weird men. Who've been trying to get my number all night to see. Um, I was like, I would love to take you out. I just, it just [00:34:00] came over. It just comes over me in these moments. I think it's like acting on that impulse because if you ignore the impulse, you're not going to do it. You're going to be psyching yourself up all night to be like, fuck, I missed my chance. Fuck. I miss my chance. As soon as you see a woman, you can almost just tell her like you're so attractive. I think it really beautiful. And also it's not speaking in your high-pitched voice. Like, oh my God. You're so beautiful for it's like, you're so fucking beautiful. Okay. Oh yeah. Yeah. If you get, if you're going to like your high pitched voice, it almost because I get so excited when I see a beautiful woman, I get so excited. I want to tell her she's beautiful and it's almost like girls' bathroom energy. Where you’re like I fucking love you. Oh my God. You're so beautiful. I love your outfit. Um, but if you fancy a girl, she's not going to register that. That you're trying to tell if she's going to register that as like wow she thinks I look really cool. She's probably not gay. And I feel like, especially as a fem person, someone who's feminine, you have to put that extra like flirtation and you have to be yeah. A lot more direct because I know it's ironic because the thing with flatting is that it's supposed to be kind of loose and [00:35:00] fun and, leave you guessing. Um, but I think I'm just my, my approach is like, a lot more Direct and yeah, it's just, I love it. I love, flirting with girls, Megan: yeah, absolutely. I feel like you're right where we are like quite feminine. We have to be a bit more direct and I'm really going to take on board that don't high-pitched voice. They come in the toilet and the bar from like, Hey babe oh my God, you’re so pretty. Yeah. So you take it down a few notches. Floss: Yeah. Cause I feel like. If a girl came up to me and was like, oh my God, you're so beautiful. I would not think she’s flirting with me, um, at all. Um, but I am an absolute, like as much as I am direct, sometimes, sometimes I literally will freeze- freeze. If I see someone that I think is fucking fit, it depends on their energy. Right? Yeah. So are you feeling like a reciprocal energy? And then I feel like it's like striking up that conversation in a way that is just so flirty. So if you're complimenting her outfit. I love your outfit. You look so cool instead of, oh my God. I love your outfit. It looks so cool. And it's [00:36:00] just like, it sounds like admiration as opposed to desire. Megan: Yeah that’s true. Yeah. I'm going to have to go out in Soho and test run this- Floss: Anywhere, anywhere. And also I feel like it's, it's all eye contact as well with girls. Fuck me, eyes work. I think also we don't want to be men. So I get that in my head. Anyway. I don't want to be like the men who pick me up at the bar. So that's always going through my head as well is the, I don't want to be annoying a woman because I feel like objectifying women is bad and also I'm queer. So I want to, it's like balancing that. How do I approach a woman and not offend her? That's what goes through my head? Megan: Well, I overthink about it. I'm like, oh my God, I don’t wanna come across like pervy and like- ew do you know what I mean? [laughs] Floss: So Mengan, I’ve asked my followers on Instagram to send in some questions and dilemmas that they have about being bisexual? Uh, can you give me hand answering them Megan: of course! Floss: Okay. So first question [00:37:00] also they've quoted my quote, which is maybe it's a gold crush, maybe you're queer, but how do you know? So how do you know the difference between admiring someone and wanting to date them? Megan: I think don't put pressure on yourself. Just like, get to know that person don't be in your head. Like, oh my god do I fancy them. I need to fancy them. Like I said, when I first started dating women, I was so like adamant that I wanted to have a relationship with women that I just put unnecessary pressure on. I think everyone's journey is different. Just enjoy the process of getting to know someone. And if you feel like taking it further, do that. Yeah. Floss: Okay. That's really good. That's really good advice. I would say. Um, sometimes those things go hand in hand. Sometimes fancying women also comes with admiring them and those two things are mixed up. And when you are queer, it can be really confusing. And you don't know if it's just a girl crush or if you're actually queer, but I think experiments lead to results. And I think we do stigmatize [00:38:00] experimenting a lot. Like we were just saying it's annoying to be one used as an experiment by straight women, which I have many times, but then wants to be accused of experimenting is really annoying, but also. I'm going to completely contradict myself here and say that like experimenting leads to results and you need to try things to know if you like them. As long as the person you're dating knows that are bi curious and you're unsure. Um, then it's all consenting and the person knows what they're getting into. So, yeah. Megan: That's so true. Just communication. Yeah. Yeah. Say, you're just, it's like early days, you just want to see, see what the vibe is. Floss: see what the vibe is for sure. So another question is I'm bisexual in a heterosexual relationship. And my boyfriend keeps saying that I'm no longer bi, is he right? What do I say? Megan: he’s definitely not right. He’s trying to brainwash you girl! Floss: oh, she said, what do I say? Megan: You're very insecure. I am bi sexual. Floss: You're very insecure. I am bisexual. [00:39:00] That's it? Yeah. And I think if, you know, once you've spoke to him about how he's making you feel, if he doesn't make any changes, um, to change his behavior, then consider if this is the relationship for you. Megan: Yeah, a hundred percent. Floss: Because that comment, you know, I understand people not getting it, but is the effort there is he making an effort to understand you? That would be where I'd be like, oh, you know, everyone's got their stuff, but if he's continually, like you're not fucking bi then- Megan: yeah Get rid Floss: get rid. Dump him babes. Um, okay. Another question. Oh, I recently came out as Bi, but I'm worried that all of my female friends now think that when I'm hugging them or being affectionate, that I'm hitting on them. Have you ever had that? Megan: Like obviously, um, a lot of my work is like half naked and I do a lot of like glamour shoots with other girls and I'm always worried that at first, when I first come out, they're going to think, oh my God, she's looking at me for too long. Oh my God. Does she fancy me? I got really awkward. Oh, and I took two of my friends [00:40:00] away to Turkey. We all shared this big bedroom and there was a hot tub in the room naked. And I was like, what do I do? I've got a girlfriend at home. And like, obviously I don't see my friends in that way, but I was like, they going to think, I see them in that way. And the more I try not to look at their tits. The more I was looking at their tits! Floss: Um, but there's also, there's nothing more gay than looking away from a woman’s tits. Megan: I should have put a pair of sunglasses on and… Floss: I had this, I had this friend, so like I said, I didn't have any straight friends. And then a couple years ago I met this girl and she's so beautiful and incredible. And we have this amazing friendship. Um, she's straight. And I confess to her one night that I don't like hugging her because I feel uncomfortable that she's gonna think I fancy her. And then we had like a whole discussion about it. But I was honest with her. And I said that also, because we're so feminine, I find this, you kind of slip very silently into the straight world and pass as straight. So I will be in the girl's toilets and some girl will get her tits out as she does on a night out, it goes, touch [00:41:00] my tits. And I'm like, really? Like, no, I'm gay. Like this is, this is weird to me. And then there's like loads of straight girls kissing her boobs or like sucking her nipple and then I'm like, this is so no, because when I do it, it's gay. It's weird. I feel like a lot, a lot of the things that straight women do in the girls bathroom oh, nights out. It's so homoerotic that it's like, like woman would be like, fucking steps, stand on my neck. Like, you're so beautiful. Oh my God. Like kill me. And it's like, that is so like, do you fancy her? I'm so confused. It's so true. Isn't it? It's like but then when you're actually queer, it's like, I dunno, like, like I'll be on a night out and someone will say like to a friend or whatever, like sit on my face. And then I'm like, but I'm gay. Like I would Megan: is that inappropriate? Floss: So yeah, to this person who said they're worried about it, I would make a joke about it. I like to make a joke about anything. Um, so like when people say this to me, like sit on my face. [00:42:00] No, but I would, it's just funny. Yeah. There's another question. It's slut-shaming inevitable on social media or are there things that we can do to stop it? Megan: I think there's always going to be people out there with negative opinions and slut-shaming opinions, but I think you've got to realize that comes from their own insecurities and their issues. Maybe deep down, they want to post a picture in their thumb bikini, but I scared what their social circles going to say. So the way I deal with this. That's your problem, that's a you problem. You've got to deal with that. That's your shit. Keep that in your bubble of shit over there. I'm going to post some thotty pictures because I like to do that Floss: amazing. Megan: But I do think it is everywhere. Like slut-shaming. Floss: What would you, you have told yourself before entering this like absolute whirlwind of a career, because it felt like. Books or podcasts or whatever. They always focus on how to become successful and less on [00:43:00] like how to handle it when you are, what would you say to Megan before she went on love island or became a public figure to get through it? Megan: Don't do things to please other people. Yeah, I think my biggest. Regret, and I always say like, oh, I have no regrets, but I do. I feel like I've continued in relationships for other people to please other people and prove people wrong. And I think I need to focus and I should have focused more on my own energy and my own goals and what I wanted to do as opposed to proving people wrong because I'm so stubborn, it's good, like, I'm driven. I get what I want in life. Yeah. But it also, I'm wasting energy on other people that are relevant and like trolls and negative people. So I just. No, what you want to do, focus on yourself and you can't please, anyone people will criticize me for things I've done. People will criticize the most like politically correct family friendly ITV would love this person like, I don't know, for [00:44:00] an example like Dr. Alex, like his perfect ticks, every box is so perfect, clean cut, wholesome. And I'm the opposite. And he still gets shit. So if he can't win, I'm never going to win. So just live your life, your life. You just got to do what makes you happy as cliche aas that is. Floss: No, but I feel like cliche is a cliche for a fucking reason. Um, would you say then that like the actionable tip from that is any time you're making a decision? Ask yourself who you're doing it for? Megan: A hundred percent. Yeah. Because I've definitely made decisions, not necessarily bad decisions, but decisions for other people when you've got like one- Floss: for the approval of other people, or to prove them wrong. Megan: Exactly. And everyone's going to have an opinion. It doesn't matter what Karen’s saying. Like, just go and do you Floss: Well, thanks Megan. I've enjoyed today so much, it’s been amazing. Megan: Thank you. I've loved it. Floss: Wow That was an incredible conversation with Megan. I've [00:45:00] admired Megan for so long and I just relate to her on a lot of the stuff that she was talking about. I think she's so fucking interesting. She's so cool. And what I love most about Megan is that she takes everything in her stride. I, I hope if you're bisexual or you're straight or lesbian or gay. If you are an LGBTQ, then I hope that you related to this in some way. And I hope that you found something funny to take away from this, or maybe your learned something new about the experience of being a feminine presenting bi sexual person, because no experience of being queer is the same as anyone else’s. Thank you so much to Megan for being amazing. Again, you can follow her on Instagram. MeganBartonHanson_ and hear more from Megan. She has her own podcast called you come first and a massive thank you to the fucking incredible Black Honey who can post the original theme music for my show. You can find them on Instagram at black honey UK, and check out their latest album written and directed. If you've enjoyed [00:46:00] listening, then please share it with your friends to keep updated with all the latest episodes as they drop. You can follow exactly podcast on Apple podcast, Spotify, Amazon music, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. And please do take the time to rate and leave us a review on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcast. It really does help people to find us and to make sure that the people who need to hear these conversations do. And remember every fourth episode of these mini series, we want to hear from you. We'll be taking your calls and questions around the topics discussed. If you would like to speak to me and my guests, you can get in touch on WhatsApp. The number of +4407890302665. And for some juicy bonus content, you can become a subscriber on apple podcasts and ask me anything you want. I'll be answering all of your questions again. You can just drop a message to me on WhatsApp on +440789030665. This is a podcast from Somethin’ Else. My producer is Milly [00:47:00] Chowles'. Assistant producer is Ella McLeod. Executive producer is Carly Maille and production coordinator is Lily Hambly with additional production from Chris Skinner and a special thank you to our engineers, Jay Beale, Josh Gibbs and Gulli Lawrence Tickle.